What is a Christian????

Thanks for all your GREAT answers!
Where did that come from you ask?
Many of you know me personally and know that I 'know' the answer to this and have for most of my life and so I'm sure you were a little curious as to why, now, I needed to know.
I didn't, until now, even know that I needed to know what it meant....really meant.

A few months ago I got this idea:
meet at a coffee shop
once a week
invite friends who aren't committed to any religious group
discuss what they believe and others believe in an effort to decide with finality what it is, exactly, that they themselves believe.

it's guided by myself and another good buddy - you're the best Melissa!!!

So, the idea came to fruition and two weeks ago Missy, myself and 5 other ladies started.
We're using a book that the warehouse was out of so for the second week in a row we needed material to discuss/dissect.

Along with Fantastic Fridays I think I'll attempt Whacked Out Wednesdays.
WOW (I know, cool huh?) will be a recap of whatever it is that we discussed the night before - feel free to join in the discussion here and keep it going!! Super Whacked out FUN!

I was all over the place with what to talk about this week- I was on religioustolerance.org and I saw the question, What is a Christian?
Out of curiosity I clicked.
See, usually 'religious tolerance' means tolerance towards everything EXCEPT evangelical Christians. I had my boxing gloves on and was ready to fight as I read what they had to say.
It wasn't as demeaning as I thought, actually, it got me more curious and I dug until I was so excited I couldn't dig any more or I'd have just burst at the seams!
(by 'dig' I mean I hopped around to different websites for days)

So, here are my notes for our discussion time - I didn't do a whole lot of editing so you'll have to just fill in the blanks - the spelling and grammar are terrible because I don't care about that when I'm typing up discussion notes....blah blah blah -
Here goes the first WOW:

Question: What is a Christian?

(after today all their answers will 'seem' wrong – even mine does. so really, there is NO wrong answer ;-)

Well, I think I told you all last week that I one thing I was excited about getting out of this group was the opportunity to dig deeper for myself into what and why I believe all while giving you the finality you are looking for in what you believe. I gotta say that I didn't expect that digging to start on this particular question but boy was it fun discovering I was wrong! This is a deeper question than I would have ever imagined!

I had a blast researching it, weighing it against all that I read and deciding for myself what exactly it is that I wish to be labeled as!
And that's exactly what the word "Christian" is….a label.

Here is a list of religious groups that use the label of 'Christian':

Protestants,
Catholics,
Eastern Orthodox believers,
Presbyterians,
Methodists,
Episcopalians,
United Church members,
Mormons,
Jehovah's Witnesses, &
Christian Scientists,
using THAT def. – 75% of all Americans are 'Christian'

So, if I was going to make Choco chip cookies and the recipe went like this:
2 eggs, 1 tsp. oil, 2 c. flour, 1 c. choco chips, etc…. Bake at 375 for 15 min…
wa la, you have Cookies!

we'd all stand back and say "WHOOOAAHH….what do you mean, "etc.???" I need more info!!!
I can bake, 'etc' if I don't know what 'etc' is!?

So, in my recipe of Christian the 'etc' would be: Protestant
In my grandmother's recipe the 'etc' would be: Unitarian

they are two totally different recipes, they both have a few of the same 'ideas'/'ingredients' but they stand alone in their final conclusions.
So…..
I would love to get into every single difference within each one of these 'etc's' but I think, for the sake of clarity, time and understanding we can focus on three and work on the rest as they come along.

we'll dissect Catholic, Protestant and Mormon tonight….if there is another we need to have answered then we'll just continue this subject until next week! (because that's how cool this group is!)

First: Catholic.
What would you say that a Catholic would say a 'Christian' is?

apparently, and I did not know this, according to the teachings of the Catholic church you are only a 'Christian' IF you are Catholic.

(excerpts of article from internet)

Please, Don't Call Protestants Christians
Marian T. Horvat, Ph.D.

It is very common today to hear Catholics call a Protestant "a Christian," or even, "a good Christian." In the United States, it was already a practice before Vatican II (mid 1960's) because of the tendency of American Catholics to accommodate Protestantism, ……. It was meant to create the impression that Catholics and Protestants were cousins in one big, happy family. Pope Leo XIII condemned this tolerance toward Protestantism under the name of Americanism, the heresy of Americanism, to be more precise.

Every time I hear the term Christian used for Protestants, I cringe. Its usage clearly nourishes a trend toward a dangerous religious indifferentism, which denies the duty of man to worship God by believing and practicing the one true Catholic Religion. It is an implicit admission that those who deny the one Faith can nonetheless be Christians…... Inherently it leads to the progressivist notion that men can be saved in any religion that accepts Christ as Savior. A "good Lutheran," a "good Anglican," a "good Presbyterian – what does it matter so long as they are good people and sincerely love Christ?
Regardless of who is applying this usage today, I want to stress that it is at variance with the entire tradition of the Catholic Church until the Council. To consider heretics as Christians is not the teaching of the Church.

The only Christian is one who accepts Our Lord Jesus Christ and the Church he established. Who can have God for Father and not accept the Church for Mother?

And so by "Catholic" they mean, not only a follower of Christ, but also of the teaching of the 'church'=which means papal authority.

I also read in many places that Catholic claim to be the first ones who used the term 'Christian'

So, a true Catholic, a GOOD Catholic would say that he is a Christian, and no one else.

the word "Christian" appears four times in the Catholic Bible and one of those times was added later on in order to accommodate the marriage sacrament. – we can dig on this later – stopping now

ok. so we could keep dissecting Catholicism on this particular path…like talking about the papal authority, etc….but for clarity of our question, let's stop there.

review:

CHRIST + CHURCH = CHRISTIAN

Second: Mormon

What would you say a Mormon would say a Christian is?

(Out of love and respect for my LDS friends I have revised this information with their personal testimony as to what a 'Christian' is to them

My intent will always be to tell the truth and this IS the truth about what they believe - they told me so!)

from my friend Tera:

As members of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints

aka Mormons

I wanted to let you know what our CHURCH believes as a WHOLE.

This information comes from our church approved website, feel free to visit anytime. www.lds.org.

The 13 Articles of Faith

1 We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.

2 We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.

3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.

4 We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.

5 We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.

6 We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.

7 We believe in the agift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.

8 We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the dBook of Mormon to be the word of God.

9 We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.

10 We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.

11 We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

13 We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

Joseph Smith author

recap:

I will still hold that Christian is a new term for the Later Day Saints - not widely used until this century

There are complications with the label Mormon and I'd have to say that it is because different fundamentalist group, who do not believe exactly like temple Mormons give temple Mormons a rough reputation

after hearing that how would you recap why a Mormon calls themselves a Christian?

so….

Catholics – Christ + church/papal authority,

Mormons – Christ + other works + prophets authority

drum roll please!!!!

Third:

Protestant

def of Protestant: refers to the forms of Christian faith and practice that originated in the 16^th century Protestant Reformation. Pro. doctrine, also known as Evangelical Doctrine, in contradistinction to Roman Catholicism, rejects papal authority and many elements of Roman Catholic doctrine. It typically holds that Scripture – rather than tradition or ecclesiastic interp of Scripture is the only soure of revealed truth and also that salvatoin is the result of God's grace alone.

ok, what's funny about this def is three things:

#1 – I didn't make it up or even look it up until I started my reaseacher about Protestants and that was after I'd done my Mormon and Catholic research. (this is so exciting!)

#2 – it says two things in there (and I'll reword them without changing the meaning) a. that protestants reject catholic leadership/their 'church' – which is, again, what a Catholic would call a Christian and b. that protestants reject the ecclesiatic interp – the 'continued revelation'/the changing of doctrine to 'keep up with the times' – tracking? funny that those are the two points this def describes as a Protestant.

BUT!!! we're all Christians, right???

etc… ;-)

So, if a protestant is someone who uses only the Bible for their def's – and I'd agree with that, then, here is what's in their claim:

The word "Christian" is only used three times in the Bible,

here is what the greek lexicon – the ORIGINAL intent of the word, means:

Christos – original greek word used in the bible: Χριστός

Christ = "anointed"

christian = a follower of Christ, the anointed

1) Christ was the Messiah, the Son of God

2) anointed

they also describe being a Christian by saying that you are 'Little Christ's'

meaing that you are ascribing to BE LIKE Him.

tough part is that even Protestants don't always agree on what it means to be a Christian.

(excerpts of article from internet)

Range of definitions of "Christian:"

There are also many distinct definitions of the term "Christian" (pronounced 'kristee`ân). Different people have defined a "Christian" as a person who has:

1. Heard the Gospel in a certain way, and accepted its message, or
2. Become "saved" -- i.e. they have trusted Jesus as Lord and Savior), or
3. Been baptized as an infant, or
4. Gone to church regularly, or
5. Recited and agreed with a specific church creed or creeds, or
6. Simply tried to understand and follow Jesus' teachings, or
7. Led a decent life.

(another article)

The word Christian is used three times in New Testament (Acts 11:26; Acts 26:28; 1 Peter 4:16). Followers of Jesus Christ were first called "Christians" in Antioch (Acts 11:26) because their behavior, activity, and speech were like Christ. It was originally used by the unsaved people of Antioch as a kind of contemptuous nickname used to make fun of the Christians. It literally means, "belonging to the party of Christ" or an "adherent or follower of Christ," which is very similar to the way Webster's Dictionary defines it.

Over time, the word "Christian" has lost a great deal of its significance and is often used of someone who is religious or has high moral values instead of a true born again follower of Jesus Christ. Many people who don't believe and trust in Jesus Christ consider themselves Christians simply because they go to church or they live in a "Christian" nation. But going to church, serving those less fortunate than you, or being a good person does not make you a Christian. As one evangelist once said, "Going to church doesn't make one a Christian anymore than going to a garage makes one an automobile." Being a member of a church, attending services regularly, and giving to the work of the church cannot make you a Christian.

(and another)

A true Christian is a person who has put his or her faith and trust in the person of Jesus Christ and fact that He died on the cross as payment for sins and rose again on the third day to obtain victory over death and to give eternal life to all who believe in Him. John 1:12 tells us: "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name." A true Christian is indeed a child of God, a part of God's true family, and one who has been given new life in Christ. The mark of a true Christian is love for others and obedience to God's Word (1 John 2:4; 1 John 2:10).

So, even though they don't all agree on the entire recipie of Christian I don't think it would be too far a stretch to say that they all agree a Christian is one who know Jesus, believes He is who He says He is and follows His teachings alone – there is no membership or other 'ACT' that must be followed, signed or promised to call oneself a Christian.

Last review:

Catholic = Church + Christ

Mormom = Christian is a new term

Protestant = adheres to just the Biblical meaning

Close:

Webster's Dictionary defines a Christian as "a person professing belief in Jesus as the Christ or in the religion based on the teaching of Jesus."

Invisible Church concept (Christians exsist in all different denominations and most religions if the Biblical meaning of the word 'Christian' is what we are basing it on - Followers of Jesus Christ and all He claimed/taught)

(excerpt of article)

I think most Christians today who are quick to label other religions as not Christian generally overlook the fact that the earliest followers of Jesus would probably not qualify under their definition of "Christian," either. Those early Christians did not accept the Nicene Creed, because that only developed several centuries later (after much debate and opposition by devout Christians, who were then labeled "heretics"). There was no agreement during the first few centuries on the nature of Christ, the scriptural canon, and many other doctrinal matters, which were only decided much later. They did not even call themselves "Christians" - the term was not generally used for Jesus' Jerusalem followers, but was invented by the heathen population of Antioch to refer to the Gentile Jesus-followers in Antioch.

blah – blah – blah…..

why talk about all this????

1. it's fun!!!

2. we need clarity!!!

3. I decided that in the end of all of this, I do not want to throw around the label of Christian without clarity.

it's too all encompassing, it has lost it's def., it's confusing

I would prefer to be called a Christ-follower and lover. (I know, even that sounds bad, but I don't care!!! at least you know my etc)

I don't want to stop being called a Christian, I just want to clarify.

Just like I don't want to stop being called a mother because someone else who calls themselves a mother does not mean it in the same way I do - they do not sacrifice for thier children, they do not discipline themselves for their children, etc....We ARE differnent but until you dug a little deeper you'd know us both just as 'Mother'

My hope for you all is that you are able to make a more clear choices in your spiritual journey – that you can weed out what everyone means by 'Christian' and that you can say, with finality, whether you are a Christian or not.

Aren't you glad you answered!? ;-)