* I'm offically ending this discussion. Don't be sad! There'll be more next week...still tossing around the idea of making a blog home for all this fun stuff!
My personal conclusion is that the word Christian, in the original Greek, means follower of Christ and therefore, if you are a follower of Christ calling yourself a Christian would be appropriate.
I will now, however, be more careful about using the word to describe myself, not stop, just be careful.
It is far from my place or knowledge to ever accuse someone else, that I am not sure of or do not know well, of not being a Christian.
Only Christ would know for sure if someone is following Him or not.
I do hope this was fun and encouraging for you - I know it was for me!
The END!
ok. that was a big can of unexpected worms!
Just for the record, I love it....it excites me.
It excites me because Light penetrates darkness every time and no matter what I say, no matter what you say - Light will win every time.
It's not up to you or me to 'convert' only to see the Light.
let's do this ;-)
(in case you're lost I am referring to the "What is a Christian" post from yesterday.)
Yes, I was saying that Catholics think that unless you are Catholic you are not a Christian, I was also saying that Mormons think that, I was also saying that Protestants believe that - AS A WHOLE.
This is tough because I too, have friends who are Catholic and Mormon that when faced with discussion such as this respond with offense because whatever it is I understand their church to believe - they do not personally believe.
This discussion was based not on what people in those religions believe personally but what their churches and leadership, as wholes, teach.
The Pope/and most papal authority would tell you that unless you are a member of the Catholic church you are not a Christian.
The modern day prophets and most bishops in the Mormon church would tell you that unless you are Mormon, you are not a Christian.
And just too even it out, I'd have to say that most Protestant pastors/clergy would tell you that if add anything to the original meaning of the actual word christian, you're not a Christian.
I wasn't picking on anyone religion in particular - I chose those three to highlight because those seem to be the three largest groups, in my circle of influence, that call themselves Christians.
I am doing my best, again, to stick with what the religions and their leadership teach - not what you believe personally.
If I did that I myself would be so enraged that I would be unable to 'discuss' this.
I am not getting into all the various differences between these religions in this discussion, just what it means to be a Christian to the different groups.
I know what it means to me personally - but what does it mean to my church....to your church....to my neighbors church....????
We all say we are Christians but we do not all mean the same thing by it - or if we do mean the same thing we may not know that we do because our leadership teaches otherwise.
Maybe for clarity's sake I will define what it does mean to be personally - not to Protestants as a whole, but to me:
A follower - ONLY - of Jesus Christ.
And by Jesus Christ I mean the one, triune, and only God.
The Jesus Christ that was the only God-man, who was born of a virgin birth, to an imperfect mother, died, was buried and rose again to life three days later.
A follower of His words - ONLY - no membership or denomination needed.
(...and my answer for what I believe personally is based on the authority of the Bible - God's own words - not the words of another imperfect man.)
But, when discussing with other religions I am perfectly aware that that may not be what they think I believe because that is not always what those who seemingly represent me, teach.
I'm feeling like this stuff might need it's own blog??????
I love it!!!
I'm really nervous that by just reading my words and not being able to hear my voice I might sound 'defensive' or that I don't want further discussion - on the contrary!!!!
I would LOVE more discussion - please, discuss away!!!!
My only request is that you stay focused on the actual question at hand....trust me...all that other stuff will come up later ;-)
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11 comments:
Amen, sister!
wow! amen!!!!
As members of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints aka Mormons I wanted to let you know what our CHURCH believes as a WHOLE. This information comes from our church approved website, feel free to visit anytime. www.lds.org.
The 13 Articles of Faith
1 We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
2 We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.
3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
4 We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
5 We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
6 We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
7 We believe in the agift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
8 We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the dBook of Mormon to be the word of God.
9 We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
10 We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
11 We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
13 We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.
Joseph Smith author
Thanks Tera - that was perfect for clarification!
Holly,
I agree with your personal statement. For myself, I would add that I have been transformed by the Holy Spirit; I am a new creature. 2 Corinthians 5:17 says: Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. To me, that would be a very important part of being a Christian.
I don't like to call myself a Christian (without extensive clarification) because Christianity is a culture (a culture I am not a part of).
If I were LDS, I wouldn't want to call myself LDS, because LDS is a culture (one I wouldn't want to be a part of).
Furthermore, www.lds.org will give you the "kindergarten" ciriculum of the LDS church, but just wait until you get to the highschool stuff...
Also, I might throw this out there: You say your "answer" for what a Christian is is based on "the authority of the Bible- God's own words..." But in reality, it is based on YOUR OWN interpretation of the Bible. You have made many assumptions about what the Bible is trying to convey. Another person, including me, may have read the exact same Bible (assuming you are reading an English version of the Bible), and think it is trying to convey something different.
fo sho Naomi~
it is my own interpretation, you are correct.
I do - and this is next week's subject so I won't get too detailed - believe that either you take the Bible as a whole or not at all- based on what it says about itself -
and based on what it says, I get my conclusions on this subject - there are a few quesionable areas YES! and maybe one day that will be some of the content on WOW
but, there are unquestionable areas too and there is no 'ones own interp' for those areas, right? no?
again, this is more for next week!
I don't know... I guess I wouldn't say there is any area that won't be interpreted different ways by different people. I'm not saying every interpretation is right- but ofcourse you think your interpretation is the right one, otherwise it wouldn't be your interpretation- but the same is true about someone who has an interpretation condradictory to yours.
But, sorry if my last comment sounded really rude. I realized that after I reread it.
I understand what you are doing here, and I agree with it, really I do, BUT! many of the "facts" that you had posted are not taught by our church and I'm not sure where your source was, but it is not accurate.
as far as "highschool" stuff when it comes to mormon doctrine?? please be careful here much of that is not our doctrine, and is the thoughts of man and not what is actually taught by our church. As Tera well stated these are our beliefs, as a CHURCH WHOLE. If you have any questions about anything please feel free to ask any of your mormon friends vs the internet where you will get lots of false info, like you so well have already displayed on your blog. I'm sure it was not your intention to do it though.
I supposed this is where we open up our bibles and start reading so that we can see what God is teaching us vs. what Man is teaching us, no????????? =]
Before we dive into which bible is the right one, just make sure yours isn't altered OR requires must-read books before Genesis and after Revelations.
Not all churches are perfect. All churches have flaws. Someone said earlier that they don't necessarily like to be lumped up into the terminology of being "christian" ... the whole labeling of it bugs me too. Everybody's definition and expectation of what a christian is or isn't can be a bit confusing.
God is God and I am not.. I am Me. Right?
Ok, I'll look for another post tomorrow. This is VERY interesting indeed!
I'm going to the gym tomorrow. Anyway here members of Prarie Life Fitness Center? =]
for clarity's sake, when saying that my 'facts' are wrong or not credible, please provide the correct information and your source -
I will do the same for you!
Great discussion. I'm enjoying reading and thinking. I think you are right, you need a whole blog just for WOW stuff. I think you are going to have quite a following. I'm coming to you're WOW discussions (on line) as much as possible. You are inspiring me to get talking with my friends too.
God Bless
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